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As you may know, we will launch a new gamification platform (missions, badges, points) on SCN in the near future. Once it goes live, members will see a shift in focus to missions with specific tasks, versus only points/level. Until now, members earned an unlimited number of points for wiki creation and edits, while blogs and documents had a value of 10 points. To better align points values across all content types we will make these changes:

  • Remove the option to manually request/receive additional wiki points by April 29th
  • Change the number of points per wiki page creation to 40 each, with a maximum of 120 points per day.
  • Change number of points per wiki edit to 2 each, with a maximum of 10 points for edits per day.
  • Perform final wiki points mass upload to allocate March and April manually awarded points at the end of April.
  • Beginning on January 1, 2014, adjust wiki points to 10 points per page created, with a maximum of 30 points per day.  Wiki page edit points will stay at 2 points per page with the limit of 10 points per day.

I’m sure you are curious about the gamification of SCN, and probably concerned about the changes in points for contributions. Please share your feedback with me. Having tested the gamification is QA, I can share that it is an exciting change for SCN. 

I wish you all a great continuation of collaboration on SCN.


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  1. Andy Silvey

    Hi Moshe,

    thanks for the update.

    When can we have a page view count at the bottom of the wiki’s like the blogs have ?

    On top of this, from a business/revenue perspective, I am curious that,

    if we compare

              SCN

    and

              Wiki

    SCN has been designed with are certain percentage of the page area dedicated to advertising and therefore revenue generation, which surely must be a nice help towards the costs of running SCN

    Wiki on the other hand, currently has no advertising space, and therefore no possibility to generate revenue

    If we assume for sake of argument that Wiki’s get as many page impressions as Blogs,

    then isn’t SAP losing out by having no advertising space on the Wiki’s ?

    All the best,

    Andy.

    p.s, can we have save to pdf on the wiki’s too please, thanks ๐Ÿ™‚

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    1. xMoshe Naveh (Old Acct) Post author

      Hi Andy,

      Thank you for your comment and suggestions.

      Could you please post them as ideas in Idea place and we will discuss them although the focus is on the new gamification and scn platforms.

      As for being able to save wiki pages as PDFs, please reach out to me via Email.

      Regards,

      Moshe

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  2. Jelena Perfiljeva

    40 points for a wiki page that has no ratings, likes or ‘report abuse’ button? Ca-ching! I guess we can expect a huge influx of platinum level SCN members in just 21 ( 2500 / 120 ) days. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

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    1. Andy Silvey

      Hi Jelena,

      you make an interesting point and getting this right is always going to be hard for the folks at SCN.

      I’ll give you an example, I actively maintain a Wiki and through maintaining that Wiki during the last 8 months I’ve gained probably 2000 points I guess, does that make me a sinner ?

      To be honest, I am not motivated by points, and I would be happy to have the points removed.

      What is the solution though ?

      I’ve thought about these points and something I wondered is, what about:

      a,  removing points for

                Blogs creation

                     and

                Wiki Creation

                     and

                Wiki Editing

      and

      b, replacing them with points for

                Likes – could be still 2 points

                Bookmarks – could be 5 points – because it means the reader sees

                real value

                Blog Comments – there could be a point for each comment, if a Blog or Wiki

                (do comments work in Wiki’s) generates comments and discussion then

                this is surely valuable to the community and engagement, therefore why not

                to reward for a point for each blog comment – I mean to the blog creator for

                generating this blog discussion and engagement

                Views – I wondered about this and the reason I include points for

                Views is because if we only have points for Likes and Bookmarks then

                it would mean that points aquisition could be trapped into becoming

                populist. What I mean by populist is, there may be sinners whose main

                motivation is to gain points and one way to achieve that would be to Blog

                and Wiki only popular subjects to get the maximum results.  This

                could consequently be  predujiced against valuable but less popular subjects

                and the trick is to find the balance to keep people motivated to Blog and Wiki

                as much the less popular but equally important subjects as the popular

                subjects, hence, Views could be weighted at 0.2 points per view (or some

                other such weighting)

      This way, there is less chance of kerchinging the system, and even if somebody blogs a less popular subject, if they get 50 Views then they will get the 10 points which Blog Creating gets today, and getting 50 Views is really  not difficult.

      So for Blogs and Wiki Creation then based upon a minimum number of Views the points will be the same today, and the real big points will come from value to the community through points gained from Likes and Bookmarks and Views.

      This way, there will be less kerchinging.

      What is the right answer is hard to say, points systems are an evolution to find a happy medium acceptable to all.

      All the best,

      Andy.

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      1. xMoshe Naveh (Old Acct) Post author

        Hi Andy,

        Thanks a lot for your suggestions and I will be sure to include them in our future discussions about SCN points with Laure Cetin .

        What I find always challenging about wiki points is who gets the points? The creator or the people who edited later the wiki page.

        What do you think?

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        1. Andy Silvey

          Hi Moshe,

          I don’t see the question here, if the system is based around points for editing (which it currently is) then surely whoever did the edit would get the points ?

          The wiki I maintain is an interesting case example, personally I have the greatest respect for the people who have built their points on the back of giving valueable answers in the forums and I give those things much higher value and respect than the two points I get each time the wiki is edited.

          On the otherhand however, people email me and say thanks for the wiki, so I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder and perhaps there are others who think the wiki is valuable (as I do, but I’m just not sure about the points).

          All the best,

          Andy.

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          1. xMoshe Naveh (Old Acct) Post author

            Hi,

            I agree, but how will you divide the points between the editors and the original contributors ? If one editor only added one sentence and the other a whole paragraph and the page got 1000 views?

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            1. Andy Silvey

              ( I mis-read your comment, hence editing my response )

              Ok, good question, if we are giving points for page views and the page gets lots of views because of a contribution not from the original creator, how do we reward that and who gets the points ?

              Ok I have to think about that.

               

              Andy.

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            2. Andy Silvey

              Ok I am off my telco and can think, some thoughts

              Person A starts a Wiki and gets points for each Page View

              Person B updates that Wiki with such golden information that the Wiki gets 1000’s more hits than it would have done without the golden information that Person B added – person B gets 2 points for updating the Wiki

              is this fair and what to do ?

              My answer at this stage (in the absence of discussion and feedback from others):

              Person A gets the Page View points – period – because Person A took the initiative and leadership to create the Wiki, therefore person A has grandfather rights to the Page Views points. If Person A hadn’t started the Wiki would Person B have taken the time, effort, initiative, leadership, to start a Wiki and post the golden info ?

              If Person B is not happy about this, then Person B should find their niche and start their Wiki

              There are not enough Wiki’s there should be more, maybe the grandfather rights to page views will help to get people post more Wiki’s

              We all know there are  a lot of borderline blogs, which should be Wiki’s, the same question can be put to golden info in the comments to these borderline blogs

              What do you thing to that ?  ๐Ÿ™‚

              Andy.

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              1. xMoshe Naveh (Old Acct) Post author

                Like:) for your points metrics suggestion.

                But before I continue I must ask,did you edit your comment to get two extra wiki points:)?

                I think your suggestion is great. I will propose it to my team and see if it’s feasible.

                As for the lack of wiki pages, I think SCN’s focus is more on creating documents rather than having new wiki pages. This way we will have a more unified content structure.

                It would be great to hear what other think.

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                1. Jelena Perfiljeva

                  Moshe, I’m glad to hear that the direction is towards documents rather than wiki pages. Can’t speak for everyone, but in my personal experience the forums, blogs and documents have been most helpfull. In all the years on SCN I really couldn’t recall a single time finding something usefull in wiki. Unfortunately, most frequently I find either incomplete or plain inaccurate entries there (is it even moderated?). So valuating them at 4 times more than any other contribution just doesn’t seem reasonable. Again – it is not to suggest that there are no wiki pages that are totally worth it, just like there are brilliant blogs and very thorough documents.

                  We’ll probably never have an ideal point system, but the current one where 10 points are assigned for creating content and then additional points when it’s rated/liked, seems rather fair actually. The problem, however, that there are no such features (like/rate) in SCN wiki and then we’re also getting into the whole questionable royalty distribution schema, as Andy mentioned.

                  Every time there are any changes in points, it triggers a heated debate (we do love our points! ๐Ÿ™‚ ), so I wonder – why not just take a poll and ask SCN members before making a decision?

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                  1. xMoshe Naveh (Old Acct) Post author

                    Hi Jelena,

                    Thank you for your post and for highlighting the need for a way to  gain additional points in the wiki via likes/bookmarks. We will take them into consideration going forward.

                    I will keep you all posted.

                    Regards,

                    Moshe

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                    1. Andy Silvey

                      Hi Moshe,

                      regarding Documents instead of Wiki’s, is the Wiki going to be closed down, is the content going to be migrated into Documents ?

                      Thanks,

                      Andy.

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                      1. xMoshe Naveh (Old Acct) Post author

                        Hi Andy,

                        I apologize for the late reply. I was on vacation:)

                        We have no plans to shut down the wiki. We do want to encourage people to use documents when they meet their needs in order to have a more unified content

                        experience on SCN.

                        Please let me know if you have any questions.

                        Regards,
                        Moshe

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                        1. Andy Silvey

                          Hi Moshe,

                          no problem, I hope you had a good break.

                          One feedback on documents, one inconvenience I find with the documents is, you click on a link to a ‘Document’ and you go to a page where it says, click here to see the document.

                          Why two clicks ?  Why can’t documents be one click away ?

                          All the best,

                          Andy.

                          p.s. ok, I know, Idea Place ๐Ÿ™‚

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                          1. Jason Lax

                            Hi Andy – Some SCN content is still hosted in the library, which is on a different server.  Therese are documents, downloads, videos and more.  This content is synchronized to SCN via coverpages where you find the link to click them open.

                            This solution provides SCN the required flexibility to handle additional content types and include the library content that predates the new platform (25,000+ items).

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      2. Midhun VP

        You made a right comment Andy.

        I also have a request to give points on bookmarks too. A person bookmarks a blog/post etc only if that is gonna be usefull for him in the future. In my case also I make bookmarks only if it is usefull for me.

        Midhun VP

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    2. Warren Nash

      This is ITToolbox’s big issue, a person who posts 100 questions with no answers is suddenly a leader in the group.

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  3. Marssel Vilaรงa

    In my opinion that would elevate the importance of the SAP community would be an official registration where the reputation of the members would have a professional value.

    Each professional SAP would have a detailed profile with their experiences in projects, project team members recomendations, courses, certifications, and contributions to the community. The linkedin is close on this but doesn’t have a SAP stamp.

    This type of profile would be an excellent professional reference especially for independent professionals. Nowadays the importance of the SCN is still unknown at the time of hiring.

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    1. Andy Silvey

      Hi Marssel,

      I’ve wondered why SCN does not become the LinkedIn for the SAP World, the foundations and infrastructure are all in place, it’s just a question of moving SCN to the next level.

      I guess this is a question of where SCN want SCN to go, but to become the LinkedIn of the SAP world appears to be a no brainer so to speak.

      All the best,

      Andy.

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      1. Marssel Vilaรงa

        become the LinkedIn for the SAP World. This is the point, Andy. I see no reason not to be. But I still think a step further.

        Six or seven years ago a friend had many problems in his Consultancy.

        He managed a sank SAP project due fake professionals. Those ones were hired as experts but were worthless. The Customer didn’t pay for this poor service and hired another company. The contractor remained with debts and lawsuits.

        After that he idealized a platform of official SAP consultants records. Where would have an update after each work by customer assessment. This would create a reputation program that would protect contractors, consultants, and would recognize the good professionals. The idea didn’t succeed for lack support, but worths thinking about its benefits.

        I believe going toward linkedin direction so many ideas will raise. I met so many good people that would never spend 1 minute on SCN because they think there is no professional gain there. I know this isn’t true because there is a lot of unexploited potential.

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        1. Andy Silvey

          Hi Marssel,

          I totally agree with you on all points especially moving SCN to the next level and using it to provide validated and recommended consultants records.

          Again totally agree with your point about so many good people who never spend 1 minute on SCN, I also know these people, and there are a lot of them, I’d go so far as to call them the silent majority.  This is precisely the point I bought up today in comments to Nigel James’  blog entitled  It’s not about the shirt  . The point is, there are a tremendous amount of people out there who are not visible on SCN or the conference circuit and who are doing good in the SAP world and SCN needs to find a way to get these people included and reach out and bring these people in and these people will then bring the people in their orbit in and so on and so forth.

          There is talk on here that the next big thing for SCN will be Gamification of SCN, wouldn’t it be good if there was also a strategy to more exploit the Professional-ification of SCN, because this is, the social network for SAP Professionals ?

          LinkedIn-iffying SCN is an opportunity for growth and value waiting to happen.

          All the best,

          Andy.

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  4. Manikandan Elumalai

    Hi Moshe,

    Is there any advantages of having both Bookmark and Like for blogs.

    People always prefer to tick bookmark rather than like in many cases though they found it interesting and useful. Moreover is it possible to see the readers who rated a particular blog or document like the one we have for like.

    Regards

    Mani

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  5. Roberto Vidotti

    Damn,

    I missed this discussion ๐Ÿ˜ก .

    I just want to add my thoughts. I agree with Jelena that 40 points are too much, why this difference between wiki and docs?

    I am convinced of some points, not touched in the discussion: if you have something interesting, new and intelligent to write I think is quite impossible to create every day 3 new wiki pages, so I think that the amount of new pages should be reduced until 3-4 per week.

    Maybe one day you can do a big effort and create 3 really good pages but sorry (my opinion) I don’t believe you’re able to do this for a long time so the limit of 10 points per wiki and only 3-4 new creation per week should avoid a lot of points hunters.

    Another doubt: I often send in SCN an answer and after I correct this because I see some errors but I never thought to receive points for this! Why should a wiki-man receive 10 points x day x wiki just because he’s ignorant like me and do a lot of mistakes in english? ๐Ÿ˜•

    Regards

         Roberto

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  6. Mariya Stancheva

    Hi Moshe,

    Your article is very helpful.

    Can you please share how we can obtain wiki edit authorizations?

    I filled out a wiki editors request, half a year ago and its status is still pending. Who I should possibly talk so I can be able to edit wikis?

    Thank you.

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    1. Moshe Naveh

      Hi!

      Thanks a lot for your comment. Can you please reach out to me via Email that is published in my SCN profile?

      Thank you,

      Moshe

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